Are Invasive Plants Just a Click Away?

Shopping online is now easier then ever, making our favorite products often accessible and delivered to our homes with just a click or two. On this episode of Smarty Plants, Amy Morey from the University of Minnesota joins host Jennifer Burington to discuss her research into purchasing invasive plants online and what she could get delivered. Rachel Wandrei from the Minnesota Department of Agriculture joins to talk about our Minnesota Grown marketing program and easy ways to buy local. 

Smarty Plants is a podcast of the Minnesota Department of Agriculture. Visit www.mda.state.mn.us/plants-insects/smarty-plants for more episodes. Look for a new episode of Smarty Plants every month.

Transcript

Jennifer Burington: 0:20

Welcome to Smarty Plants, a Minnesota Department of Agriculture podcast, informing the public about invasive species that affect our environment and agricultural resources. My name is Jennifer Burington, and I will be your host. The internet and online shopping have transformed our lives and given us access to endless amounts of items we can purchase with a few simple clicks. While that is usually a good thing, it has also made it easy to purchase invasive weeds. Amy Morey from the University of Minnesota recently conducted a study to see how many invasive weeds she could order and have shipped to Minnesota. Amy is here with us to discuss this study and the dangers of shopping for plants online. Rachel Wandrei from the Minnesota Department of Agriculture joins us to highlight some safer plant shopping options available through the Minnesota Grown Program. Dr. Amy Morey is a research associate with the Minnesota Invasive Terrestrial Plants and Pests Center, MITPIC at the University of Minnesota. She manages the species assessments that inform the research priorities of the center. In addition, her research focuses on pest management and modeling where species survive on the landscape, especially of invasive insects.

Amy Morey: 1:31

Hi Jennifer. Thanks for having me today.

Jennifer Burington: 1:34

Rachel Wandrei joined the Minnesota Grown Program in 2022 as the marketing manager overseeing statewide advertising, public relations, and other external projects. Prior to working with the MDA, she worked in marketing and community engagement in the arts sector, and owned a shared use commercial kitchen with her husband. As a hobby, she started gardening with plants native to Minnesota several years ago, and her favorite Minnesota wildflower is cup plant. It's a pleasure to be here today. Thank you. So to get started on today's episode, let's get a reminder on what noxious and invasive weeds are and why they're a problem for our environment and natural resources.

Amy Morey: 2:15

I think that's a great place to start. I might actually also add a third word that you brought in there just for context of weed. So weed, noxious, invasive, those are all words that people often use interchangeably, but do have, um. Slight differences that can be important to know. So weeds, um, that's a word that's very broad and it really just refers to any plant that at some point is inconvenient in an, in the broadest sense to people or something we're trying to do. Um, so rows in a cornfield, for example, in that circumstance, the rows could be a weed in your garden. It's not a weed. Then if we think about noxious species or sometimes noxious weeds is often how they're called. Um, those are again, any kind of plant, but they have been designated by some kind of regulatory authority, whether on a county level, state level, federal level, they've been designated as harmful or something that can cause harm to. Uh, human health, animal health, the environment, the economy, any, any of those, um, areas of human activity. And then the third word, invasive. Um. Isn't just any kind of plant, um, or any species, but we're talking about plants today. Um, it first is, um, a plant that has not historically occurred or co-evolved in an area that you're concerned with or talking about. So non-native. Alien, exotic, those kinds of words we use to describe that scenario. And, and second to that is that they are known to cause harm or have potential to cause harm to that area specifically. So it's really a two part piece. Some important distinctions then from those definitions I gave. Not all non-native plants are necessarily invasive, so they may not be from an area, but they're not really causing harm, at least that we can determine at that point. Um, not all invasive plants are noxious, so, and then the reverse is also true. Not all noxious plants, noxious weeds are in fact invasive really, because they may actually be native to that given area.

Jennifer Burington: 4:40

So. You were gonna get into, um, kind of online shopping and, um, making purchases for all these plants and seeds and stuff. So, um, when so many other products are available online, I mean, I can order pens and pencils and paper as I'm looking at things. And, um, why might purchasing plants or seeds online be risky?

Amy Morey: 5:07

Yeah, I, I think offhand, I can't really think of unique risks that come with shopping online as opposed to going to a store perhaps, or even just to your local plant swap. So fully unique. Um, but what the internet allows is just this huge amplifying of the risks that are already present. Um, and on a broad level, those risks are not. Being able to have good certainty about the health or the reliability of what it is that you're purchasing or you want to purchase. So, um, in the case of plants, uh, is it an invasive plant? Um, is it healthy for the landscape that you want to? Put it in. Um, is it, um, satisfying regulatory procedures that are in place for everyone's security? Is it, um, if you're buying seed, for example, does it have a certain amount of purity to it? Are there other things that are mixed in? Um, has somebody verified that it's actually the type of plant that you're thinking you're buying? Um, so all of those things aren't zero. Percent likely in all of these other contexts where you might be buying seeds or plants. But the way that the internet operates today, at least, um, it's just a, a much more complicated landscape and those risks are elevated. Um, manyfold

Jennifer Burington: 6:37

perfect. And Amy, you recently studied the availability of buying invasive weeds online. And can you tell us about the overall idea behind this study and what you were hoping to learn from your research?

Amy Morey: 6:54

So something I think a lot about in my job is, um, understanding where species go on the landscape and how they got there, um, or how they move around. For plants in particular invasive plants, the scientific community we, we've known for a while, a couple decades, we've had really solid data to say that the horticultural trade, um, which is the industry that, um, for production and exchange of plants for food, medicine, uh, ornamentation landscape, uses all of these things that frankly, all of us benefit from in some way or another. Um. But unfortunately that industry has also allowed for the opportunity for a lot of invasive plants to enter into areas. Um, for the US in particular, some one estimate puts it at about 40% of the plants that we currently recognize as, um, invasive in the United States. Found their way here through the horticultural trade originally. And, um, there's other estimates that actually put it a little bit higher than that. Um, but the pattern is the same. This is a major pathway of introduction for invasive plants. Um, so there's that piece. And then, um, with the advent of the internet, uh. There have been people that think about and look at, okay, what if you take that trade and you put it online? What happens? Um, it gets more complex, unsurprisingly, right? The internet, uh, just makes things more complicated for good and bad. Um, so there's been recent research where folks have looked at the intersection of those two ideas. Horticultural trade online. And how does that impact, um, the in invasive plant situation in the us Um, and on a global scale, but to our knowledge, um, most of that understanding stemmed from advertisements and, and drawing conclusions from what you can find and deduce from the advertisements that are online. So the website that says, look at this beautiful vining plant called porcelain berry. Uh, buy it now. Um, and so researchers will say, okay, where is this person selling it from? What species is it? Where are the regulations around it? And, and make conclusions from that. And that's a very reasonable place to sit and, and start with research. Um, but I was really interested in this kind of conceptually small space along that pathway from advertisement to holding up. The product in my hot little hand. Right. Is there opportunity along that spread, um, pathway for intervention or something that affects the vi the viability from multiple lenses, the viability of that pathway to receive, um, invasive plants by ordering them online?

Jennifer Burington: 9:54

Yeah, there's a lot, a lot of options, like you're saying, you can easily find things just by doing a simple Google search and then looking, um. At just any of the social media, lots of plant swaps, like you're saying. Um, all kinds of places that are, you can search online, um, and view from your phone or your tablet and computer and things like that. And then you can just click on the Order now button and get it shipped in two days.

Amy Morey: 10:20

Exactly. And that's, I had encountered that, again, from what I do as part of my job I was encountering this time and time again, and, um, understanding what our state. Noxious weed law has and what you are and are supposed to not be allowed to do. And seeing this, um, apparently very freely available, uh, group and subset of plants that, uh, like, can I, what, what would happen? How often does this happen? What do you get? So that's what inspired me to. To try it out.

Jennifer Burington: 10:53

Perfect. Dig a little bit deeper. Yeah. Yeah. So how did you determine which plants were gonna be part of your study? We've talked about weeds in general, noxious weeds, invasive weeds, kind of all of those, um, kind of terms that we've talked about already. Mm-hmm. But if you wanna explain how you determined which ones you were studying.

Amy Morey: 11:11

Mm-hmm. So first, um, filter is that I wanted plants that were recognized in Minnesota. So it was, it started out as a. Focused study on Minnesota. Um, and I wanted plants that we recognize as invasive. So they're problematic, they've not, they're not native to this landscape. And then the second piece of that was wondering about regulation. So again, we've, we've talked about noxious weeds, um, in Minnesota, like other states, though not all, we have a noxious weed law. And as part of that law, there is a list of plants that says. Okay. These ones are, are problematic for different reasons. Um, and they all have, um, different regulations associated with them. Many of them have restrictions on their sale and movement within the state. So, and restriction, meaning outright prohibition in some cases. Um, but others of just like, you know, don't move these around so that they're spreading. So the noxious weed list offered a great. Um, regulatory list for me to start with and 'cause it's a scientific study, I wanted a good. Control or rather comparison. So I wanted unregulated plants and for that I turned to the organization that I work, um, for the MIT pick, Minnesota Invasive Terrestrial Plants and Pest Center at the university. And we have a list of species that we, um, have evaluated that helps to guide our research priorities. So we fund researchers to address invasive species problems in the state and with limited funding you. Unfortunately can't fund projects on all species, but we have a process to identify ones that are particularly threatening for plants. Most of our prioritized plant list overlaps with the noxious weed law, but luckily for me, um, there were about 20 at the time that our. Arguably invasive from an authoritative standpoint, but are for various reasons, not regulated at this time. So I had a nice, um, it was about, there's, I think there's 57 plants on the noxious weed law or the noxious weed list, um, currently in Minnesota, and then these 20 unregulated species.

Jennifer Burington: 13:32

That's a big list that you had to choose from

Amy Morey: 13:34

77. Yeah.

Jennifer Burington: 13:37

You probably found all of them.

Amy Morey: 13:40

Well, yeah. That You want me to get into the results right away?

Jennifer Burington: 13:43

Yeah, that's right where we were going. What results did you see from your work? Especially like you're saying there's 77 plants that you had to choose from. There's probably a wide variety in what you found. Yeah. So if you wanna explain what you found.

Amy Morey: 13:56

Yeah, so, so with that list I went and then just for. Very brief context. I went and I looked online. I did not look, uh, particularly exhaustively, you know, this was very baseline Googling here. Um, and I, all of all of those, um. Plants. I looked for them online and accumulated a whole bunch of potential opportunities, yada, yada, yada. I ended up with a lot of envelopes, packages, small, medium, extra, extra large. Um, yeah, I really had no problem ordering most of these plants to put some numbers behind these results, um, which are still somewhat preliminary at this point. We're finishing up some data analyses. But around 82% of what I looked for, I found at least one sample for, um, that 82% span. All regulatory categories, which I should back up the Minnesota noxious weed list, breaks the plants into groups. Um, kind of, you can think of it as differing by severity of regulation, but there's um, five different levels, four different levels. Um. Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, uh, but I think there's, I think there's, um, five different, different levels. Uh, and it didn't matter, uh, if they were in our highest level of regulation, lowest level of regulation, or completely unregulated. Um, I found examples of all of them. Most of the material that I found were seeds. So that's generally how a lot of this is being moved around. Um, however, about a quarter of it was some other type of, um, plant material. So beautiful. Potted plants with nice leaves. Um, bare root cuttings, just vegetative, cuttings, roots, rhizomes even. I, I found some products that aren't necessarily intended to be planted the way that seeds and, uh, potted plants would be. Um, but they're things like decorative arrangements, um, other home decor tees, anything that might have the, um. The flowers still intact, uh, from the plant that's used. The is is used in the product, but could still ca, um, contain viable seed. Um, so I got a lot of boxes that had a lot of different kinds of material. It came from a lot of different geographic areas. Um, about 30 different US states sent me material and about 20 different countries, including the us. Um, I receive material from an interesting little aside there is that, um, those numbers didn't necessarily meet my expectations of what I would've assumed by just looking at the advertisement of, okay, I'm ordering this plant and I presume it's coming from this state or this country based on what the seller is saying. And that, um. There was often a mismatch between those things. Um, so yeah. And, and so then the other piece of result that I would wanna talk about here is that the presence of regulation, um, was there, but ultimately it didn't really have a statistical effect on my ability to receive, um, the samples of these plants. It, it showed up. Um. Having a presence in the number of advertisements that I might find overall. And that was interesting and, and actually follow suit with another study that happened a few years ago that was looking on a, um, a national level, um, in invasive plants and trade. And they, they had seen that that plants that are regulated in. The more number of states where a plant is regulated, the fewer advertisements that were found for that plant. And that did follow through with what I was seeing as well. Um, particularly for species, uh, that are on our prohibited eradicate and prohibited control categories within the noxious weed list. Um, it didn't zero out those advertisements, so the opportunity was still there to purchase them and. Like I said in my, uh, the first result statement, I found them and I was still able to receive them. Um, it just cut down on, on the number of opportunities.

Jennifer Burington: 18:22

Yeah. It sounds like you got a whole lot of seeds and a whole lot of plants.

Amy Morey: 18:26

So many, so many, yes.

Jennifer Burington: 18:29

77 of 'em to choose from. Yep. Yep. Um, but yeah, it's good to think about, um, other uses of. Invasive plants, like in the, the decor and things like that. I know a lot of, um, wreaths. Um, we've seen in the past, like magazine covers and stuff have, uh, round leaf bittersweet berries on them, which are just beautiful. They're red berries with the yellow capsules. They are wonderful to look at. Great fall decor, horribly invasive plant. So not a good idea to have on a wreath that the birds can just come and pick off and go. Drop anywhere, anywhere else, um, or depending on how you dispose of things. Um, like our holiday greenery disposal we talk about too, having those reads and, um, invasive insects and trees. Um, some of the cut Christmas trees and stuff like that. Um, same kind of thing. The disposal, like you can't just put it out in your yard. You have to think about. But more than that. But if you just don't have invasives in there to start with, that'd be good. So, yeah.

Amy Morey: 19:33

Yeah. And I, you know, a detail about how I did my study is that I was really just using the name of the plants, whether it was the scientific name or the common names that we use for a lot of these things. And, um, for the products that you're talking about, you're not necessarily going to have the name of all the plants that are incorporated into that wreath or floral arrangement, um, just because it's not. Necessarily what people are looking for. You know, they just, that looks beautiful. I want that. Right? Yep. Um, so I didn't, uh, it was that particular example of Round Leaf bittersweet. I was looking for wreaths that had it, and I, when I was looking, I didn't find it. But, um, again. I don't know that people necessarily advertise always that there's, these are the species in this product. So it just speaks more to kind of the complexity of the problem when you're trying to figure out how to contain and limit spread of some of these species. And, you know, seed is, is a incredibly interesting and resilient biological entity, right? So people don't normally think that, um. Your dried arrangement or your, you know, the baby's breath in your, um, wedding arrangement. They're not thinking of it as a live plant. It's okay. It's now, it's a decoration, but that seed in many cases is meant to survive a lot of really harsh conditions like being dried out for. Long periods of time and then so you toss it out, compost it, put in your compost pile, and that might actually be giving it an opportunity to now have an environment that it can sort of wake up and and germinate.

Jennifer Burington: 21:17

Yep. Yeah. It's not exactly the description of a wreath isn't always going to include. This type of leaf, this type of dairy. Exactly. This type of this. Exactly. It's just gonna say Beautiful red berry wreath. Exactly, yes. So yes, again, with the online descriptions of products that you are purchasing. Right. You never know. You never know. Yeah. Which is always good to, um. Kind of point out if you don't know if something is invasive or, um, if something, the identification of something and you think, well, they mentioned something about red berries and yellow mm-hmm. Outer capsules on the, on the berries and stuff. Like who can they ask about that? And so one thing I always like to mention is that if you're. Ever have a question about noxious weeds or, um, seeds if they are on the noxious seed list, or, um, insects or plants that you find out in the environment if they are one of these noxious or invasive, um, organisms, you can always report into the Department of Agriculture's report a pest line. Um, you can easily find our contact information on our website, um, www dot mda state. Us slash report aest, all one word. And if you send us pictures, even if it's like a snip of a webpage, um, or a photo that you took, and when you received something, um, in the mail or a product, go ahead and take a picture of it. Send it in to us, um, and we'll have our entomologist look at it, Angie. Um, if it's an insect, and Emily will probably look at it if it's. Um, gonna be a plant. So please let us know if you ever have a question about any of all, anything that you order, um, and wanting to know if it is something that's invasive or noxious or, um, what to look out for. So thanks for kind of explaining what you, what you found in Steph. So. Based on all of that, what kind of conclusions can you draw from the results that you got, from what you received, from what you ordered, from what you found online, um, communication that you had with sellers and things like that?

Amy Morey: 23:29

I think the biggest, um, conclusion is probably one that, um, would fall under the, you know, the intuition category. But, um, until this, the study didn't really have. Empirical data to, to really support it. And that is that the, um, online plant trade is a very, it's an easily accessible, widely available source of spread for invasive plants into Minnesota. You know, again, my study was specific to Minnesota, but, um, I think the lessons learned here are absolutely applicable to other states. Um. I received material on a global scale, and it wasn't just within the United States, it was across many countries. The, um, people selling the material also were quite diverse, you know, obvious individuals all the way to large businesses. Um, I. Received all sorts of different kinds of plant products and material. So this isn't just one, you know, just not a seed thing or a life plant thing. Um, and unfortunately right now, um, this way of exchanging goods is circumventing a lot of the regulation that we've had in place, um, uh, historically and up until now to try and mitigate some of these problems. And, um. It's just not quite having, I, it's not having the impact that I think we all hope that it would. Um, but, uh, you know, it's a, the internet is a complicated landscape. It's just, it's hard. Um, Minnesota's laws apply to Minnesota. We can't tell another state what to do and then, then you get on country levels that's even more complicated. Um, and. I mentioned earlier, there is sometimes even just a mismatch between where you're expecting to get material from and who you're expecting to get material from, um, compared to what at least the return address is of the package that I received. So, um, it's a downer of a conclusion, but I think it's a, it's an important main finding to emphasize here. However, with the data that I have accumulated for this, I think there's still opportunity for. Doing better. And I, you know, I really don't mean that as a, um, lemonade out of lemon sort of platitude. I, I think there's interesting, um, details like, uh, the. This mismatch of things just aren't always as they seem online. Um, and depending on what you're, what you're trying to figure out, that can be a positive or a negative. Um, one example that I give is, um, it was just a particular seed order that I of, of salt cedar, so that's a regulated species in Minnesota as well as many other states. Um, and I thought that it was coming from Indonesia. The package that I received had a return address from California. Um, the seeds ended up being, and I actually, I, I think I forgot to mention this in describing the study, but all of our seed material and our plant material, we, um, tested for viability. So biological viability, the seed material all went to the MDAs seed analysis lab, the wonderful lab that we have here. Um, and they did a particular. A chemical assay to determine whether the seed is alive. And then they also looked at the structure of the seed to try and figure out, um, what the, the taxonomic name is. So is it matching what I thought that it was? Um, and then for the plant material, uh, the nons seed plant material, I put all of that in a secure greenhouse. And then just looked to see if there was evidence of growth. Um, after a while, and that was, that was a, I mean, it's a very base level, um, definition of viability. Um, and then also we, um, verified the identification of that material whenever we could as well. So with that in mind, um, the example that I was talking about, I thought that it was a salt cedar. A bunch of salt, cedar seeds. It turned out to be a completely different group. Um, um, albia, I think is the genus. So it's a, a type of, um, silk tree is a common name that's often used and most of the seed was dead. So, uh, I. You really wouldn't have been able to anticipate the reality of what it is that I receive. There's still kind of a lot of problematic things about that process, but um, yeah, it's not quite as straightforward as you can buy anything on the internet full stop, which I think is the assumption that, I mean, I certainly had going into this and a lot of people were working on. Um, then the other piece, just to go back to this idea of regulation, and while I didn't find a. A significant impact of it on my ability to receive these plants. It was still present, so it still had, um, it, it, it showed itself along this process, at least on, in, on individual sales. So I did get outright denials of sale in multiple cases. Um. And that would be, you know, uh, from businesses, or when I say business, um, like a, uh, a company that might be a, have a nursery, like a brick and mortar nursery. And then they also sell some plants online or even just a fully mail order company. Um. They'd say on their webpage, this is a regulated species in X, Y, and Z state. Whenever I saw that, I absolutely flagged it to go back and test. And so I was able to, to test that in a lot of cases. Um. The ones that specifically called out Minnesota, about 65% followed through. So they told me in one way or another, we're not gonna send this to you. Sorry. Um, interestingly, the majority of cases where that occurred, um, wasn't those, uh, companies that I was talking about. It actually happened on large marketplaces like Amazon. eBay, Etsy where you may still be dealing with a company, but it's all filtered through a marketplace and might might be called something different. It's just a little trickier to tell. Um, and how that occurred is I'd see an advertisement i'd. Pop on there. Yep. Okay. This is definitely seeds of a, um, an invasive honeysuckle. And as soon as I typed in my zip code, the page would refresh and it would tell me, sorry, we cannot send this to the, um, specified location. Please change it or find something else essentially. And what's important there is it completely shut down the sale. So the track transaction couldn't, couldn't proceed. And while they don't explicitly say that it's because of regulation in the state where your zip code is, um, it only ever happened with regulated species that are on our list. Didn't happen with all of them and not in all cases. Um, but it was also often for species where, um. Uh, they're on many other states, noxious weed list or they're, they're well known species like common buckthorn or the case I gave, um, an invasive honeysuckle like, um, uh, halls Honeysuckle, which is a, a Japanese honeysuckle. Um, so I think that's an important piece because. There's infrastructure that's present in at least these large marketplaces, and they, they tended to be where the amplification of a lot of the opportunities to buy these plants were. So, um, you know, I mentioned I could find a lot of different types of sellers, but the, the number of sellers was really just, um. Blown much higher with the online marketplaces. So that opportunity is there. I don't know, um, how it worked, why some plants, uh, keywords mixed with zip code didn't work. Um, you know, and it wasn't across marketplaces or anything, but at least, um, the data that I found with this study, I think that's an important piece for. Regulators and researchers and enforcers to take and think about, okay, what, where could we even start with this? Um, very complicated landscape. Um. And then I think the last conclusion that's important more for the average consumer, the general public, um, awareness is still an important piece of this issue. I don't think it's a sufficient place to start or wholly sufficient place to go. Um, but it's not, not, um, unimportant and really ra raising, raising awareness with folks, um, to. To know that just because you can find it online, um, doesn't mean that it's maybe the best option. Um, and to understand that, uh, what's healthy for your local landscape in the region where you're wanting to garden or whatever you're wanting to do with these products, um, that can also help to mitigate this problem.

Jennifer Burington: 33:06

Yeah, that was a lot. It sounds like you had lots of packages. You kept those delivery guys and gals busy.

Amy Morey: 33:14

Oh my goodness. Yeah. Things I'm sure that the postal person was like, what is going on for this person? All these littles of packages a of seeds. Yep. Yep, yep.

Jennifer Burington: 33:24

And so that's, that's something good to to think about is that, um. Where, where are you planning to plant these? Like you're, you're saying like you could type in your zip code, you can't get it delivered there. Um, type in another one, in another area. Um, obviously the plants that are probably gonna do well in Minnesota, probably aren't gonna do, may not do well in Florida, or the plants in Florida that are, um, on their lists or something like that probably won't even survive in Minnesota. We have our wonderful winters winter season and construction. Yep. Um, but. If those plants, um, but some of them are still on everybody's lists, like you're saying. Um, the ones that are on multiple lists, those ones are, were harder to come by. Um, which is good to hear that, um, those ones that people should kind of be aware of, like the buckthorn and stuff mm-hmm. That hopefully they shouldn't be able to get kind of anywhere, so. Right. Right. Yeah. So it's good to think about what, what is locally a good idea to have, um, in your yard, in your, uh, landscapes and things. What is kind of more, more of the native, um, plants and then also. We don't want to say no to all, like ornamentals and stuff. There's great benefits to a lot of ornamentals. Um, so continuing on with like consumers and what, um, they can do to, uh, reduce the risks of introducing invasive species through purchases. Um, Rachel, do you kind of wanna, and Amy, I guess both, both of you can kind of comment here on what consumers. What should they do to reduce their risk of getting these noxious weeds or invasive weeds?

Amy Morey: 35:06

Well, maybe I'll start it off because I think it'll blend into where, where Rachel, where her wheelhouse is. So, um, like I mentioned at the beginning, I don't know that the online space. Particularly unique risks. It just really amplifies ones that already exist. So, um, I think my advice for online shopping in particular can, can be applied in any sphere that you're shopping. Um, but when you're online, if you're either intentionally looking up a plant you've sought, advertised somewhere, or you saw your neighbor had it in their yard, um. Open up a second tab, or maybe you're just coming across it like you're, I don't know, scrolling Pinterest and you see something beautiful before you buy it. Use the internet here to kind of help some of the problems that it's, um, creating. Open up a new PA tab and just, um, type in the name. Ideally, if you can find a scientific name, um, that'll get you the most accurate information, the most quickly. Um, but often that's not always available. So whatever identifying. Name and features that you're given in the purchase, plug that into your favorite search engine. If you also include the term invasive, might speed up things a little bit here too. Um, and then see what comes up. Really, if you're seeing any state agency, certainly if it's in our case, Minnesota State agencies or the university extension folks, anybody talking about the problematic nature of that plant. Um. Find something else. There's likely, um, multiple alternatives, native alternatives that, um, is, are just much healthier for our environment. Sometimes you can, um, mitigate that uncertainty that you have online with shopping by focusing on, um. Local markets. So local growers, and this, you know, this applies to other products too. Not just plants, but the same benefits come from shopping locally. You know, you're, or you're, you're at least, um, given the opportunity to know who it is that's offering this product, kind of what their standards are, they're more likely to be familiar with the local landscape regulations. Um, just. All of the situations that come from being within Minnesota or the upper wood Midwest versus somewhere else in the us. So, um, I think that's also a great place to start when you're looking for plants.

Rachel Wandrei: 37:44

I am just here learning, soaking it up, and I've been so excited for my chance to be a counterpoint to what all of your research discovered, Amy. So, um, Minnesota Grown, of course, is our wheelhouse over here and. It has been around for over 40 years, started by farmers to help Minnesotans connect with local farms and farm products and other, um, anything that is grown or raised here in Minnesota. And so it's just this, I'm very excited to get to share this as there's many, many reasons that we talk about why it's. It's valuable to shop locally, right? We're supporting local economies and you know, getting to know your neighbor and have a relationship with someone that you're, you're buying from. But this is just giving a whole nother layer of the importance and the value in this. It's not just a silver lining, it's a big glowing gold lining to shopping locally. So, uh, Minnesota Grown has a website where you can look for. Um, over, I think 150 different products, but we have 295 listings within our nursery and landscaping, um, section. And so that is an easy place for people to start when they're looking for a reputable. Credible source for finding plants. And you mentioned, you know, the, the expertise that folks have, but they're gonna have so much love and passion. They have more enthusiasm for plants than, you know, than, than a common gardener. And so they really care and they're really going to, um, they want to know and, and protect our, our native landscapes. And, and so they're. Uh, they're a great resource for us to, to learn from as we're, as we're all looking to be better stewards. Um, and of course there is also, you know, there a, a reliable source. We have a better opportunity. When you talked about the internet circumventing the tools and regulations that we have in place, you know, to try to, to, to, to maintain our, our, the noxious weed list and things like that, well these, these growers are going to be much more accountable, uh, for that. And I wanna throw one more thing in, is that. You can't actually buy from them online as well. We're talking about the, uh, the risks with the internet, but I mentioned, you know, we have over a thousand farms and farmer's markets, but even just within the nursery and landscaping section, we have a filter where you can look for places that will sell online and, and 58 of them, you know, have that. So I know I myself have ordered. Um, milkweed, butterfly milkweed, um, from a local vendor and had it, had it shipped to me. So it's a, it's an, there are some pretty easy ways that we can take it upon ourselves to be supporting local growers and planting the right kinds of plants at the same time.

Jennifer Burington: 40:42

Thanks, Rachel. Minnesota Grown is a really great, uh, resource and I know that, um, people to shop locally, there are some options for, um, people to make sure that they don't. Um, they're limiting their, uh, spread of noxious and invasive weeds. And can you explain some of the tools that are available on your website?

Rachel Wandrei: 41:03

Yeah, so Minnesota Grown, uh, I mentioned, has been around for a long time and we have a great online directory at Minnesota Grown. Dot com. That's all it is. That's all you have to remember. Minnesota grown.com. Uh, and it will essentially take you to an online map. And so you can search by location or you can search it by your product. So you just hit search directory and it'll take you to some different options. And there's a nursery and landscaping section. You can sort it into so many different things. If you're looking specifically for native plants, there's a section for that. If you want wild flowers or if you want ornamental grasses or just regular bedding plants, there are, um, listings in each of these categories where you can find a Minnesota grower. That carries those products and then it has the links to their websites. It'll have their phone numbers and email. Uh, so the most common thing is, you know, just go from the Minnesota Grown directory over to that website of that Minnesota Grown, uh, vendor, uh, where you can learn more about what they have to offer.

Jennifer Burington: 42:15

Just as a reminder too, like. If I'm ordering, if I'm looking in around the twin cities and stuff, it's a completely different growing conditions up in northern Minnesota, like at my cabin and stuff. So I know that if I'm gonna be looking for stuff, um, that I wanna plant at the cabin, I, I have used the Minnesota Grown directory to try and, uh, locate more local, um, uh, nurseries and garden centers and things so that I know that they're gonna have a better idea of what to grow. In that land because I'm, I'm up at the cabin every couple weekends and stuff in the summer to enjoy the lake and the beautiful weather and besides the storms and other things. So yes. Um. I love that that's an option and a great resource, and it's easy to be able to find, um, places that have, uh, Minnesota products and especially plants that I want, um, to put in the gardens up there.

Rachel Wandrei: 43:10

Absolutely. I mentioned, yes, it's a map so you can really, and I mentioned the passion and enthusiasm that so many of these growers have is that with, with when you get excited about. Native plantings, you know, native to Minnesota. Uh, you can get hyper-local. You know, you can go 20, 30 miles and be in a different soil type. And so when you are talking with these, uh, growers, you know, they really know and they're hopefully gonna ask you, oh, well where are you gonna plant this? Right? So that, that the things that they sell you are gonna do well because they're accountable for that as well. So we actually put a, a blog post up. Um. Earlier this spring that had tips for gardening with native plants and we interviewed four different, uh, Minnesota grown members. One from Shoreview natives up into harbors, um, you know, and then, you know, down prairie restorations in Princeton and Blue Clary Native Plant nursery in Watertown. So to have that perspective, um, around. Very, very hyperlocal of where these plants do the best and, and that the growers will have a particular knowledge for their area. And I'll throw one extra little shout out to Glacial Ridge Growers in Glenwood is one of the larger greenhouses that specifically focuses on growing, um, native Midwestern plants. And they're a, they're a resource that a lot of other plant growers will also purchase from. So be able to, you know, look, look for those native, native plant growers.

Jennifer Burington: 44:38

Nice and I'll keep my eye open for it.

Amy Morey: 44:41

I think Rachel just. Brought up a, an, a good little point there when we talk about native, um, you know, and I was mentioning the definition of invasive, um, species. Don't pay attention to geopolitical boundaries. That that's a, that's our kind of a convenient proxy for, you know, when we say native to Minnesota. Uh, as I say all the time, um, when talking about this project, but it really is, you can have very different ecosystems within our state boundaries. And so it, it's thinking about the. Eco region that a species is native to and, and understanding the, the, um, habitats there, you know, something that is native to the upper Midwest is also, you know, that's, that's more where species tend to deal on deal with there on the, uh, the natural landscape, not just our geopolitical boundaries.

Rachel Wandrei: 45:36

Uh, if I could Yeah, jump in. I think before we were recording Jennifer, we were talking about some tools where people can find. Comparables, uh, some alternatives as well. So if you're in your garden, you say, I really want a color counterpoint here. I'd like something yellow. Here's something online that looks good, but maybe there's another plant that would be a better option.

Jennifer Burington: 46:00

Yeah. And to one of those resources was through the Midwest Invasive Plant Network. They have a landscape alternatives for invasive plants. So if you find in your yard that you have. Um, a type of invasive plant that has, um, certain quality or like likes the shade or has a purple flower or something like that you can find on their app and on their website that you can, um, you'll get a list of plants that have similar qualities, whether they're. Um, color, whether they're the type of soil type of shade and things like that. So, but good options that are going to be native to the Midwest, um, area that are not invasive, um, that can replace. Those invasives that you're trying to remove from your landscape or trying to, um, not put into them. Um, but if you notice something that catches your eye, which a lot of these noxious weeds and invasive weeds, they are quite eye catching, which is why they were brought over. Um, very beautiful. So if you can find other things that, uh, kind of match those, um, qualities, they do give you a lot of options with those. So it is quite nice on the, on the Midwest Invasive Plant Network or ppin. Um, a website as well. So I think with that, um, do you have any final advice for us on purchasing plants or, or seeds?

Amy Morey: 47:27

I think the, the big take home again for consumers is to, um, just be more. Cognizant of what it is that you're buying, put a little bit more effort to, to get that certainty of, okay. No, I, I do think that this is something that, that's okay to be putting in the ground, um, certainly from a, a legal standpoint at a minimum. Um, but considering these other, um, factors as well that it's in, that it's still invasive even if it's not regulated. Um, I, and I will also just add a quick plug that, um, a fun collaboration that resulted from this project is with also at the university. Um, there's a conservatory and botanical collections on the St. Paul campus, um, that they are normally dealing with plants of conservation concerns. So, um. From around the world too. They have a couple different greenhouses that are just really wonderful to go in, especially around, I dunno, December through February, um, around here. Um, but it's open to the public and they ended up taking, um, a subset of. Potted plant material that I received as part of this project to set up a little bit of a display to advertise this, um, this issue of plants and trade. And like you said, Jennifer, there's nothing intrinsically bad about invasive plants. And these plants that were in trade were in trade for reasons. And sometimes it's not just for, um. Beautiful appearance. I mean, arguably all of the plants on the noxious weed list are, are quite, um, beautiful in their appearance, but they may also have other useful traits like they can help with erosion control or maybe they have a medicinal value or a food value, something like that. Um, so, you know, I really, not wanting to vilify these species, but just understand and, and. That in context when you have plants out of place, what can result from our activities of moving them around and plopping them, um, in, in situations that they normally would've maybe have taken thousands, tens of thousands of years to, to reach, if at all. Um, so I think it's just a, a nice. Uh, juxtaposition with the conservatory that, um, highlighting the beauty of all of these plants, but to really understand, you know, where they occur and where they have co-evolved. Um, and, and understanding that can kind of help us be much more, um, much better stewards for the land that we're, that we all value. Yeah, the tours at the conservatory, um, are free. Uh, I should mention that my plants are housed in a greenhouse that's not technically available freely to the public. You can still see it through a glass wall, but if you wanna get up close and personal, you just have to sign up to have a tour. Um, and they'll be happy to, to let you come and see them.

Jennifer Burington: 50:34

Yeah, I remember going there as a student, uh, in the winter months. It is quite nice to go in and look at some tropical plants, um, when it's negative 20 degrees outside. So yes, definitely it was quite, quite a nice little benefit from being on the St. Paul campus. So well, thank you Amy and Rachel.

Rachel Wandrei: 50:52

Oh, can I, can I share? I just, yeah. What can people do and just add that easiest ask it all is for folks to go to Minnesota grown.com and go visit a local nursery or greenhouse. Like you said in the, in the fall it's even better, but you know, a lot of, we think gardening, we think in the spring only when we're putting in annuals. But a lot of plants do well being planted in the fall. Uh, so again, those benefits of supporting your local economy by shopping at these local stores through the fall is, is huge. Um, they, they can really use our business and our support and it's a great time to be doing planting. Um, and then we just adjust. You know what we're looking for in the garden a little bit. I know. I personally just get so excited when I have one tiny little purple flower here or there, you know? So, um, you know, these plants that are, are, are better for our gardens here are, are beautiful and can be easier to grow. They're supporting our pollinators and wildlife like Amy mentioned. Um, and so there's, you know, I don't think there's anything to be lost. There's just so much to be gained by, by supporting. And planting native to Minnesota plants.

Jennifer Burington: 52:06

Well, thank you Rachel, and thank you Amy. I know I will be continuing to use the Minnesota Grown directory and looking forward to hearing the final on your research. Um, thanks for giving us all this information and advice on the dangers of online shopping for plants. And your study definitely has shown, um, that we have to be cautious when we're shopping online, and that purchasing from local businesses is, is a much safer, safer option. So thank you again. This has been Smarty Plants, a podcast from the Minnesota Department of Agriculture. Our producer is Brittany Raveill. Our editor is Larry Schumacher, and I have been your host. You can learn more about pests and other invasive species that affect our environment at www.mda dot state.mn.us. And while you head to our website, we'll be working on the next episode of Smarty Plants. See you there.